Talk:CB-002 Raphael Gundam
Proof on Raphael's Tech Clearly the unit is inspired by Innovators/GNZ-tech along with Seravee's theme, but when did it ever say that Raphael's chassis is recycled through Seravee? Can anyone shed light on this? If not, I'm going to presume it's another unfounded fact and erase it. Wasabi 13:00, December 22, 2009 (UTC) :It was showed int he Gundam 00 Geneology that came with the PG 00 Raiser manual.Both Raphael and GN Archer had the word " Derived Unit"translation,on them from Seravee and Artemie respectively.:For the record,only these 2 had those words on hem. :Its Artemie-GN Archer that gives the statement credibility.As we know from the HG GN Archer manual,Archer was originally created from a 3rd Generation Gundam though the manual did not specified which one,because Artemie hasnt been revealed at the time. :Now,the Geneology did reveal something else for us,it revealed to us the direct connection from Artmeie to Archer,with a line.This is important,because any connection before this was released was simply implied due to visual similarities and not a direct statemen,the 3rd Gen mention not being withstanding because we havent confurmed artemie's generation then. :But the release of the Geneology was changed everything.Firstly,it revealed to us throught the Derived Unit line that the mystery 3rd Generation gundam IS Artemie,with a line.Now I know the word derived unit is not enough to convince people but the more complex mention of Archer's creation from a3rd geenration gundam in the HG Archer manual,further strenghtenes this statement.It also tells us that Artemie is 3rd Gen,based on the info from the HG manual. :By compiling the info from the 00 Genenology and the HG Archer manual,we can determined that Archer was created from Artemie's frame with alot of certianty.And since the EXACT same term was used on Seravee-Raphael as well,it gives us a good impression that something similar will be done.Also note that no other ms in the chart has this term,it stays uniqe to these 2 suits alone. :If you want to review the Geneology for yourself,I think the list of 00 mobile weapons page have the translated image right there.It should still be there anyways.SonicSP 17:21, December 28, 2009 (UTC) SonicSP, what i meant is that the original edit suggests that Seravee's chassis was recycled for Raphael, obviously by visual comparison, it looks nothing like it. I just thought the person who wrote that made it misleading to say that. I've seen corrected it, saying the design was inspired/derived from the previous marked models. Wasabi 01:50, December 29, 2009 (UTC) :In terms of evolutionary design, Raphael's chassis takes inspiration from Seravee, but like Taikage/Wasabi says, the parts from Seravee weren't used to make Raphael (as far as we know) its' primary design feature were used as an inspiration. On the Artemie/Archer subject, it is well known that GN Archer was based off of Artemie, but since it was used by Hayano once during 00F and was damaged, CB very well may have detached the bits and combined the original tail booster concept of Arios with Artemie. Going back to Raphael, it's basically confirmed that Raphael will be constructed within Celestial Being, hence the odd model number.Gaeaman788 02:37, December 29, 2009 (UTC) :::@wasabi-Thats precisely what I meant,that Raphael is made from Seravee's chasis I wasnt the guy who placed the edit there'at least I dont remember putting it there.Note that taking and reusing a frame does not necessarily mean taking it and simply using it,it could be something like taking parts and placing it there. :::For the record,the other 3 Gundams were were developed from data from their predecessors and inspired as well,according to the Geneology but their terms simply said "developed from",not "derived unit" which has only been used on Artemie-GN Artcher and Seravee-Raphael.Its the HG GN Archer's manual statement of GN Archer used to be a "3rd generation Gundam" that gives the re-using frame/parts argument for Raphael from Seravee its credibility.Previously,one could only guess that GN Archer is related to Artemie due the visual,but what the Geneology does is that it links GN Archer to Artemie directly as its "derived unit"a literal translation from the cosmic era scanlated version,though some translators actually quickly came to the conclusion that it was made from.Sulendil Zeta from Mechatalk did a seperate translation on the Geneology and quite early came to the conclusion that the term in Japanese refers to "units being made from" in terms of meaning.I dont know Japanese to verify whether this meaning can be corrct but he came to this conclusion quite early,even before the cosmic era scanlation version came out.. :::Combine the knowledge of Artemie was that said 3rd Gen Gundam that GN Archer was literally made from HG GN Archer manual,and using the Geneology as potraying the Artemie-Archer connection using the term "derived unit",the exact same term repeated ONLY for Seravee-Raphael,and we can come to the conclusion that Raphael will using Seravee's parts or frame in some way.The other 3 Gundams which we know are inspired by their predecessors do not even have this term,if Raphael was merely an inspired made from mecha like them,it will be having the same term as they are,not the same term that just happened to be used only by the other "recycled frame" MS..Note that I'm not suggesting that CB took Seravee and turned it into Raphael,which simply wont do,but I'm suggesting that they took some parts or re-used certain parts for something,a modification of the same physical frame if you will.Note that this can vary anything from a whole skeletal frame to just a bunch of screws :::@Gaeaman788:Your suggesting that Artemie's frame was damaged and taken by CB to me modified into a new new MS.Thats exactly what I'm saying for Raphael here.I know its not easy to visually this being done for Raphael,but the evidence I'm using is the 00 Geneology chart. :::Now,most of us here may agree that Archer was made from Artemie literally.We know this from the HG Arhcer manualstates Archer was made from a 3rd Gen Gundam as well as the direct link showed in the Geneology using the "derived unit" term.Raphael is the only other suit in the chart to use that term number of terms in the chart is limied by the way,they have a legend,so I'm suggesting that the same thing is done for Raphael.The degree of Seravee's frame used in Raphael may not be as much as Archer,but I'm saying that some similar recycling is done simply on the basis that the same term is used in these 2 and on none else. :::Now,if some of you thing thats there not enough certainty at the moment to put this in the article,then thats fine.We're still at the early stages anyways,but I think you should remember this argument that some of us have come out with.At the very least I personally think it should be put in speculative nature context,afterall they are many other things that are already in the speculative nature that are in the article that are unsourced and since this one has some sources to back it up abit,I think it at least deserves a mention in the speculative nature context.Not to mention,we know Raphael is alreay the odd one out of the 4 in 3 ways:Name,model no,and a pilot thats data at the moment.Would it be surprising for this one to be another oddball property as well?-SonicSP 04:25, December 29, 2009 (UTC) Raphael Backpack I'm going to say it just because it's been bugging me. Red Bead thing above Raphaels head is the front skirt of the other MS attached to the Raphael. Is anyone paying attention to it and the long rifle like extentions in the back?~KuroKirin 02:43 January 3, 2009 :You mean something like this ? I found this off the MAHQ forums, and it seems like the original source is from 4chan. :~ Azkaiel 12:27, January 3, 2010 (UTC) : :For a while, by looking at Raphael's picture, i really got the feeling that it doesn't possesses only 1 drive. If you look closely at the rear shot of Raphael and right on the top left corner of the back pack, there is something in white color which can most likely be a GN Drive, of course it seems there is another one on the right too. Given the fact that Seraphim's Drive did survive and it is now used by the Raphael, there are possibilities that those 2 drives on the back pack could be GN Tau Drives to cancel out the need of sharing a GN drive and increase the power volume for the weapons. Well, they did state that the Raphael is wrap up in many mysteries, not just one, obviously anyone would know just by looking that the back pack can tranform into a gundam and hence my assumption on the drives. There is another feature of the Raphael that i think could be included in its system. Since Tieria is (can link directly to) Veda now, he may be able to set up a remote control like system for the back pack and control it inside the Raphael cockpit via Veda when the back pack does detach and transform into a Gundam like an extension of the Seraphim Gundam system, where it self activate the moment Tieria could link to Veda in the end of season 2. These are only my speculations based on the current data on the suit. I know it may be too soon for these speculations but tell me what do you think. Seravee's Drive Survived There was some information earlier in the article that says that Raphael will be using Exia’s GN Drive due to its own Drive being destroyed and Tiera wearing a blue pilot suit. I can assure you that it is incorrect. The thing is, we’ve already confirmed in 00V Senki Chapter 4 Celestial Being only lost one GN Drive in their fight against the Innovators, it was explicitly stated that they only lost one GN-Drive. Furthermore, it was further stated in S2 Novel 5 that this Drive was specifically the one on board 0 Gundam Type ACD when Exia’s sword pierced through it. So, 00V Senki Chapter explicitly stated how many Drives was destroyed and S2 Novel 5 directly outlined which one it was. So despite how bad it looks, Seravee’s Drive survived. With this, I deleted the paragraph stating it.-SonicSP 10:00, April 12, 2010 (UTC) Need A Better Pic Anybody with a better pic of Raphael? We got a clear image, but I don't think anybody as gotten a cleaned up image yet. I would appreciate a volunteer who can clean up the images, thank you. Wasabi 14:21, April 27, 2010 (UTC) : I cleaned up the image and the background. I hope it is satisfactory.-SonicSP 17:11, April 28, 2010 (UTC) : I remove the background and added the rear picture as well and placed it in the "profile pic" section. I'd just thought its a better comphrehensive view rather than being stuck in the gallery with alot of other pics. I know the rear picture's dimensions arent perfect, but I guess its a bit hard because the 2 linearts were given different porpotions in the magazine scan, but I personally think its good enough to go together. And its more informative.-SonicSP 18:24, April 28, 2010 (UTC) Dude, don't worry about it, it was a decent clean up. It will suffice until better pics come in, think you can clean up the others like Harute and Zabanya? Wasabi 12:22, April 30, 2010 (UTC) : Done, I've posted Zabanya and Harute's rear cleaned linearts as well as Harute's Fighter Mode. I posted all of them on the main profile pic section too in their respective pages. For Harute fighter Mode, I posted the front ms, rear ms and fighter mode as the main profile like we do for its predecessors. I'm going to see if I can do something regarding 00Q, because the current profile pictures uses the "designer colors" version instead of the more defined "anime colors version". SonicSP 08:49, May 3, 2010 (UTC) Raphael Image update Done, I posted Raphael's Front and Rear views of the HQ images hope you guys like them. If there is anything about them that you people see or need me to fix about them let me know. Shindy00 18:52, June 3, 2010 (UTC) Similarities to GNZ-001 GRM Gundam I think we should put GNZ-001 GRM Gundam in the Developed from Sections, Because Rapahael shares many similarities with GRM Gundam Here are the similarities I've noticed: 1.The Shoulders 2.The Legs 3.The Chest 4.The Neck CorruptedToxic 14:18, June 26, 2010 (UTC)CorruptedToxic I've noticed the similarities too, but those aesthetics are also seen in the Gaddessa, Garazzo, and Gaddess to varying degrees. In any case, looks alone aren't enough to assign a MS to a specific development tree. If anything, the Raphael would probably use the Gaddessa's data more than anything. —AscendedAlteran 14:26, June 26, 2010 (UTC) I think we should add Gaddessa to the Developed From section?CorruptedToxic 02:48, June 27, 2010 (UTC)